Welcome Guest :: Registration :: Login
[ New posts · Members · Forum rules ]
Page 1 of 212»
Forum Russian Step By Step » Russian Language » Grammar Questions » Two questions from Lesson 3
Two questions from Lesson 3
harpsichordDate: Sunday, 2013-01-27, 10:32 PM | Message # 1
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
Hi Olga,

In Level 1, Lesson 3, Exercise 18, the answer key for question 1 has the following written in reference to a woman:

Она секретарь.

On the "New Vocabulary" list, it says that this is the word for a male secretary. Am I misunderstanding something, or should this read, "Она секретарша"?

Also, the audio in track 31 has me very confused, as in about half of the statements, people's FIRST names change. I understand the pattern for arriving at people's middle and last names in Russia, but I don't understand why their first names are changing here--and then only sometimes. If this is not a mistake, I would love some clarification. Here are some examples from track 31:

Several people state their first names. Then they say their father's full names, and end with their own full names. In the initial statement, the woman's name is first spelled Юля, then changes to Юлия. Then Иван remains Иван, but Наташа becomes Наталья, and Дима becomes Дмитрий. Then Ирина stays the same--Ирина, and Сергей also remains Сергей.

My son suggests that in at least one case, the first might be a nickname version of the name given a second time--like maybe in Russia, Дима is a nickname for Дмитрий?

Thank you,
Mandy
OlgaDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 11:25 AM | Message # 2
Group: Moderators
Messages: 86
Status: Offline
Здравствуйте, Мэнди!
Thank you for your question. Natasha says that the curious students are our best QA testers.

The answer to your question is.
If you want to use a first name together with a patronymic, you have to use the person's full (official) name: Юлия for Юля, Наталья for Наташа... You can find the official version for a person's diminutive name on our website (Other- Russian names)

We will add some more explanations in the RSBS1 book, so our future students won't be confused.

thumb :thumb: thumb


Message edited by Olga - Monday, 2013-01-28, 12:28 PM
harpsichordDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 1:25 PM | Message # 3
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
Thank you, Olga. You are an absolute treasure! And what about my first question, regarding "Она секретарь"?

Mandy
OlgaDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 3:52 PM | Message # 4
Group: Moderators
Messages: 86
Status: Offline
Sorry, I got worried about your first question, so I forgot about the second one.

Она секретарь sounds official, and in her papers it will be masculine form - секретарь.
In colloquial Russian we use секретарша and this is OK.

Olga biggrin
harpsichordDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 4:12 PM | Message # 5
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
Oh, I see. Then is студентка also colloquial? In other words, can a female student (or teacher, or any other profession with a male/female distinction) also be referred to by the masculine term?

Thank you,
Mandy
OlgaDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 4:23 PM | Message # 6
Group: Moderators
Messages: 86
Status: Offline
That's a good question.
I did not think about that this way.
When we talk about professions, we can use masculine form for sure.
But!
When we use студент/студентка, школьник/школьница, ученик/ученица - we have to use the appropriate form - masculine or feminine. We cannot say студент Ольга Королёва. We should say студентка Ольга Королёва.

biggrin
harpsichordDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 5:28 PM | Message # 7
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
OK, thank you. smile One final question: Is there any difference between школьник/школьница and ученик/ученица, or do they mean the exact same thing?

Mandy
OlgaDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 5:34 PM | Message # 8
Group: Moderators
Messages: 86
Status: Offline
Школьник/школьница = pupil ( at school)
студент/студентка = student (at the university or college)

ученик/ученица = learner (the one who is learning), disciple.
For example, one can say: He is my ученик. I am teaching him how to drive a car. - Very general word.
harpsichordDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 8:27 PM | Message # 9
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
Thanks, Olga; you are a talented instructor, indeed.

Have a good night,
Mandy
OlgaDate: Monday, 2013-01-28, 10:21 PM | Message # 10
Group: Moderators
Messages: 86
Status: Offline
Thank you, Mandy! Good night to you too.
Olga biggrin
harpsichordDate: Tuesday, 2013-01-29, 9:37 AM | Message # 11
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
OK, it's the next day, and I actually do have one more question. smile I was looking at the list of formal and diminutive names and wondering...do Russian parents have to give their children formal names? Say they love the name Наташа, but they dislike the name Наталья. Can they officially name their daughter Наташа?

Thank you,
Mandy
OlgaDate: Tuesday, 2013-01-29, 12:34 PM | Message # 12
Group: Moderators
Messages: 86
Status: Offline
It's funny.
But, if the parents love the name Наташа, they know that in official documents it will be Наталья. They will always call her Наташа. Actually without a patronymic we rarely use official names, especially for girls.
Yes, the parents can make an exception and write down in the registration form some unusual name. I have to say that it's not that popular as in the US.
yes


Message edited by Olga - Tuesday, 2013-01-29, 12:35 PM
harpsichordDate: Tuesday, 2013-01-29, 1:16 PM | Message # 13
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
This is so interesting! I guess it's easier for Russians to name their children since they don't have to come up with middle names like we do in America. LOL

You call yourself О́льга here, which, according to the chart, is a formal name. Would you be called this in Russia, or do you have a nickname (diminutive)? (Don't worry, I won't use it. tongue )

Mandy


Message edited by harpsichord - Tuesday, 2013-01-29, 1:18 PM
OlgaDate: Tuesday, 2013-01-29, 2:09 PM | Message # 14
Group: Moderators
Messages: 86
Status: Offline
Everybody calls me Olga in English. I got used to it.
My Russian friends call me Оля, because Ольга sounds too official in Russian. Here on the Forum it's appropriate though.
Оля is neutral.
Олечка, Оленька is affectionate.
Олька is a little bit rude.
But, on the other hand, if a girl is like Tom Sawyer (They call it madcap?), it's OK to address her Олька.

wacko
harpsichordDate: Wednesday, 2013-01-30, 8:11 AM | Message # 15
Group: StudentF1
Messages: 30
Status: Offline
Yes, I figured that Ольга was appropriate for the forum. Thank you for the very interesting information! As far as I can tell, it is unique to Russian culture, and I like it. smile

Mandy

Added (2013-01-29, 7:58 PM)
---------------------------------------------
Ack, I keep having more questions; I wish I'd thought of them all at once! In the section on Russian names, it says that one should use a first name together with a patronymic with a teacher. Since you are an instructor, would I address you in Russia as Ольга along with your patronymic, and Наташа as Наталья with her patronymic? I just want to be perfectly clear on this matter.

Thank you,
Mandy

Added (2013-01-30, 8:11 AM)
---------------------------------------------
I just noticed that in the Grammar section at the back of the textbook, it answers my original question in post number one about the first names. Had I studied it closely, I would not have had to ask. Together with the website, this is a very thorough resource, and I am just now getting accustomed to its many facets...

Mandy


Message edited by harpsichord - Wednesday, 2013-01-30, 8:13 AM
Forum Russian Step By Step » Russian Language » Grammar Questions » Two questions from Lesson 3
Page 1 of 212»
Search: